I left school Christmas '54 / '55. That would be January '55 and started work at Colman's. I was just 15 and I started in ... that was called the tin shop and we used to make the little tins for the Colman's mustard. I was offered a job on what they called the cutters, and we used to put the sheets through these rollers and that used to cut the tin, and then another machine where it would cut it the other way, so it was like an oblong piece, and then another machine used to turn it over and make like a body part. And then someone used to put the bottom piece in and then the top.
The tin plate used to come in on a pallet, and that used to be about 30 inches by 21 a sheet. It was very heavy. You used to lift about, say, ten sheets up at a time onto your bench, and then feed it through this machine. We used to have gloves on, protective gloves and aprons, but it still used to cut through .. . oh I've got lots of cuts on me. And then another machine after that to do it another way so it was in the shape. And then someone else used to put it through the machine. It was ever so noisy.
And you didn't have ear protectors or anything?
No, nothing like that, no. And there were three of us used to do the cutters, Cathy, Margaret and myself. And I stayed on it because the bonus was quite good (laughs)
That was piece work?
Yes, yes. This man called Cecil A. was our charge hand, and every so often he would have to come and alter the cutters whatever size tin you were making. And you worked hard for two or three hours and then you had to go and find Cecil wherever he was. Well, you could never find Cecil! (laughs) This really stick in my mind. You could never, ever find him! The tin shop was quite vast, had a cellar and all that, and I used to spend p'raps an hour looking for Cecil. And I never could really figure this out, because they used to want the work out, and you'd worked hard for two or three hours, you know, and then you couldn't find him. I think he used p'raps to be somewhere picking his horses out or whatever! So I never could make that out why he got away with it really. Because you used to have to put something on your time sheet to cover that time.
So you didn't let on?
Well they must have known. The men just got away with it, I'll tell you! But that was the down side. He was alright. We didn't mind. He's long gone now.
He'd obviously got a bolt hole somewhere!
Oh yes! Must have been a lot of them down there. I think a lot of those buildings are all pulled down now. Some of them have been converted.
Everybody used to bike to work, and 10 minutes to 8 they used to have a hooter. 10 minutes to 8 every morning. You could hear it all over that area. Why that went like that I don't know. Once you heard that hooter go you had to really . .. . and we had to clock in. And then that used to go again at 10 to 1. Whether that was anything to do with Thorpe Station or where it was, or whether it was Colman's I don't know. So that was 10 to 1 and then that used to go again at 10 to 2, so we must have had an hour lunch break. And they had a lovely canteen where you could get a cooked meal very reasonable. Yes, that was a really good canteen.
So what time did you knock off at the end of the day?
Half past five. Yes, I distinctly remember that. And then we used to bike home.
And did you enjoy it?
Er .. . . some points of it. What made me leave in the end, when I got married at 20, I just got so fearful of being cut. There was always someone was in the Office, had got cut, you know. We had these gloves but, ‘course, that used to cut through.
Did they protect your forearms?
Well I've got a lot of cuts on me. I could show you quite a few. Yes, it used to slip. Quite wide sheets, you see, of tin. I don't know whether they would allow people to do that now. I nearly cut the top off my finger once. That was my worst sort of one. Some of them did some quite bad cuts. And I got in the end so I couldn't bring myself to . . .. I didn't even want to go in there. But when I got married I thought this is the time I'm going to make a change. I liked the people, nothing wrong with the people. Well I say I liked the people .. . our forewoman, she was an awful woman really. She never called us by name. We were always "You!" "You!" "You!" "Upstairs!" "You!" You know, that sort of attitude. She was not a nice person at all. But she didn't pick on me particularly. She did some people.
So were there a lot of women there?
I couldn't really say. At Colman's there must have been a thousand or two people worked on the whole factory, but then when the tins were made they used to go along a belt and into the mustard to be filled up, along a conveyor belt. But I don't know how many people actually worked in the tin shop. Several hundred I should think.
Every August they used to pay ... I can't think what it was called now .. . but we used to get a percentage of our yearly earnings. We used to get about a shilling in the pound, which was ever so generous! We used to call it a name, but I can't think what it was called ... "Prosperity" I think. It was always announced over the loudspeaker what percentage we were going to get. Sometimes it was a shilling and a penny. But it worked out a nice sum for our holidays. That was quite a generous company, you know, as I say with the subsidised lunches and that, in that day. ‘Cause Colman's was well known for being . .. I never knew anybody to get the sack. So it was good. But it was p'raps just that particular job I did, and I didn't want to do anything else.
Some of the work there also, you were on a machine and you had to keep up, like on the lines, you had to put in and, ‘course, if you weren't quick enough it all used to build up, and I didn't like that kind of work. I couldn't work quick enough somehow and then that would all get to me. So I liked the tin shop, the cutters, the job, but I got so nervous of it in the end. So that is really the main reason why I left and went to Boulton and Paul's with my sister.
How long were you at Colman's?
Five years. Never thought about leaving before then. That's funny, that's just a
sense of loyalty, I suppose. But it was a family concern because my sister N. worked in the printing, my sister, N., worked in the Office and M. my sister worked there for a time. And my dad, being a Lakenham man, he always thought Colman's was a good firm to work for.
Well when I was due to leave school the only job I was offered was a job at Harmer's in the office, which I got that job, you know, and then I got this one offered at Colman's, but because it was more money and there was four younger than me at home, you see, then it made a lot of difference. So I never went into an office. Very low pay then, office work.
So I went to Boulton and Paul's and I worked with my sister on the painting.
(For this part of the story you can refer to the interviewee's contribution to her sister's account: "A Woman in a Man's World" under Construction & Maintenance)
I liked Boulton & Paul's. Nice atmosphere. Liked the work and it was good money.
So were you literally working with your sister?
I did. We paired up, ‘cos you used to work two together, and worked with her till I had the children. '65 ... '66 I think I left, so I was there about five year as well, and I never went back.
And then I had my two children, and then I went to work in the evenings at Diamond H Controls, and I was there for 20 years. But I transferred from evenings to mornings when the children went to school. But I worked there 22 years. Evenings was useful, 6 till 10. It was lovely. Made a lot of friends and we all had young children. And they were so glad of workers then. They couldn't get people to work, that you could do any hours you liked. They were so desperate when they had the orders, so sometimes when I did the mornings I would do 8 till 1 was my time but sometimes I would work till 3. They used to say "Well, if you can do an hour or two hours it will all help".
Where were they?
Diamond H Controls. That was on the Airport Estate, the opposite side on the Diamond Road. It's not there now, you see.
We used to make switches for cookers, the department I worked in, and they used to do thermostats, you know, the long thermostats what used to go into the cylinders, gas stats. There was 6 or 700 people worked there at that time. That was a big company. That was a London company I think; they came down to Norwich, and that was a really nice firm that was, because it was a family started firm apparently, so I was told, and we all sort of worked in together. I was thinking to myself when we were outside, ‘cause they were all individual jobs, you sort of more or less worked on your own there. You had a particular job to do.
So no conveyor belt or anything like that?
No that wasn't. I liked that because you worked on your own at your own pace. Some people were naturally quicker than others, and I think I was about average, you know.
Was that piece work as well?
Yes, always piece work. I was thinking to myself today, if you were put on a job what you hadn't done before the other people what had already done it they would always, everybody would help each other, show you the best way to do it or how they did it, you know. All helped each other.
I know people years ago, they used to get this impression about factory people . . . . how would you put it .. . . being a little bit rough and ready, but I never, ever found it, you know.
Also when you'd been there say ten year, everyone used to get a silver pencil, thanking you for your service, and fifteen years you used to get some cut glasses, so every period of long service what anyone done ....
So they recognised their staff.
Very much so. Every Christmas we used to have a lovely Christmas Ball at the Norwood Rooms. That was all free, with free drinks for your partner and a Christmas meal, and then they used to sort of thank everyone for what they'd done through the year. That was ever such a nice company for that, you know.
And one day there was a lady called Jean G. She ran the London Marathon when it first started. She was one of the first people I knew. And when she came into the factory everybody just clapped altogether, and then we went into the canteen and the management came in, and they made such a thing of this for Jean, you know, and we all clapped and they presented her with something or other. I think they doubled the sponsorship money up, whatever that was for. But there was always that sense of camaraderie. I missed that when I left. Yes.
‘Cos why I left was because the company was bought up by a company called William Holdings, and they were like an asset stripping company; they stripped the company of the paying parts of it, I suppose. It was all about in on the television and that was awful then when they came in. That was terrible that was. They started at the top and they sacked, just ruthless they were, they got rid of all the people they didn't think they needed. Not generally the workers on the shop floor. But they got rid of managers and under-managers and charge hands, and then just one person was left running the whole thing. And then gradually, gradually that went down and down, and each department was closed down. And that was really awful. And even the founder of the company, he just broke his heart.
And then it went to China, and Dick W., he was with my son, he was a maintenance engineer, he went to China and was training them and got them set up in China.
So they're still in China?
Yes, far as I know. ‘Cause my son had left by then. So where Dick W. went I don't know. He went to China apparently to train them up and get them started, but what actually went to China .. . . The cooker switches we used to make I don't expect they put them in cookers now. So they don't probably make them now anyway.
And they used to do transistor boards and that, I suppose for televisions. They did expand and do various new things. They used to make a lot of things, but ‘course I didn't work on them, coil windings and all sorts of things. But, as I say, a very big company, and how much went to China I don't know. That was just what I heard.
Sad for those of you who'd worked there.
That's right, yes. There was a lot of tears I can tell you, there was. And they . .. well of course they do it in all companies ... . you just hear the name announced over the tannoy and they had to go down to the personnel and get their cards and that was it. So everybody what was there .. . . I worked mainly mornings, so most of that went on in the afternoons, late, you see to get the end of the day. So everybody used to know who the next person . . . and that's how that was done. In the end even the personnel .. . Pat P her name was our personnel lady . .. she was ever so nice, she was .. .. . and she got it, she was made redundant. And then even Mr W, the Personnel Officer, he went, and, as I say, management and everybody went.
Very sad
Yes it is, ever so sad and that's terrible when you see it all happen. That's how that did in all the factories, isn't it?
Well that's why they're not there any more, are they?
Yes, I really do wonder where everybody work, and how we produce any revenue. How do we produce money? I've never actually got the answer to that one. ‘Cos Norwich was like shoe factories wasn't it? Thousands employed with shoe factories and Cayleys, so many thousand there, and the clothing places, all gone. I often think that. I think to myself "I wonder where everybody . . ." My husband said "They stream down towards the city and you wonder".
Well mostly shops . . ..
Yeah, but they're not actually producing anything, are they, if you know what I mean. You trade don't you, and that's what we always did.
So what did you do then?
I sort of volunteered redundancy. I thought, "Well I'll go". And I thought I might like to go into care work, which I did for the last nine years of my working life. And I really loved that. I used to go round to people's homes.
For elderly folk?
Yes. For anybody who they .... Well no, not really. Because I looked after a young family as well. The mother died in the end, but I looked after them for five years in my caring job.
So was that for Norfolk County Council?
Yes, Norfolk County Council. That was really good then because ... mustn't say too much really now because the job has changed now . .. . but then the doctors used to decide if somebody needed some help or care. And then we used to have a manager and they used to go round and see people and then allocate what jobs needed doing for each individual person. P'raps you might have done a bit of washing in one or a little bit of housework or shopping - whatever they wanted really, what was the need. Of course they're not allowed to do that now. There's none of that now.
Sounds like a really good service.
Yes, that was. That was.
So apart from a family like that where mum had died, what other . .. . .?
Well, she had cancer, J had, when I went, so I used to go in at 7 o'clock in the morning and I used to like get the children ready for school and help her. She was ill for five years. She had three lots of chemotherapy so it was a long, long job. It was a very sad situation, but it was my job and I wanted to do all I could to . ..
You'd get involved wouldn't you, especially with children involved.
Yes, that's right. And ‘course they picked up on the situation, so it was quite hard, it was quite hard. But they were lovely little children, I did love them. And then ‘course they lost their mum. She died after I retired, but I still used to go in my own time ‘cause I couldn't just walk away.
I met some lovely people when I did the care work. I think care work was really my thing, but I don't suppose when I was younger they had care work, not like that, did they?
I don't know. I'm surprised by what you say because I don't know if you saw the programme the other week, the Panorama about care workers, how awful it is now, looking at their watches all the time?
That's right. Apparently, because I still meet up with my carer friends at Christmas times, we had a meal, and apparently the situation now is when someone is discharged from hospital they have like a package, and in that time they help them to sort of get back on their feet again. Whether it works or not .. . I asked this young manager and "Oh yes" she said, but the carer next to me said, you know, a little bit different!
So did you do that kind of thing? I just wondered who else you supported while you were working. What other kinds of situations you found yourself in?
Well, the latter part of the time I did meals. I used to go and get the lunches and that. We used to have to change catheters .. .. They do more and more now, more like nursing, the carers now.
So was it disabled people?
Oh yes, yes, a lot of the time. Parkinson's they used to have, cancer . .... The idea was to keep people in their own homes, so - maybe I've not got it right - but I think they've withdrawn that service and surely it must cost more in the long run.
Most people want to stay at home don't they?
They do, and with a bit of support they will, you know. Mum's hairdresser that come, her mother and father-in-law they had home care, and she said this carer came in and she had got 17 calls to make! And you've got to have your travelling time as well. So you cannot give - this is what my colleagues were talking to me at Christmastime - some of them have left. They p'raps would have liked to stay on a year or two longer after they were 60, but they haven't. They just can't do the job. I mean how can you go in somebody's house and say "Right, I've got 20 minutes". You can't do it. They don't understand that you've got other people . .. ‘cos they're not aware of it, are they?
So what kind of training did you have?
We had quite good training, oh yes. Norfolk County Council were very good. We used to have regular meetings, first aid . ...
So when you made the transition from your factory work to working there, was there training before you started?
Oh yes, I went for a week and a lot of talks, oh yes. And training right through, even the latter part of the time. We used to have meetings, once a month we would have a meeting with our manager, and if there were any queries or anything. That was good when we had a manager, but then they took them away and they had social workers. So that's all done through social workers now, and I think that's not quite the same. In the old days the doctor used to get in touch with the manager and whoever had got a spare slot on their time would take that new client on.
So how long would you expect to spend with an individual person or did you spend as long as was needed?
No, they used to give you a certain amount of time - never enough time, but that was what you got paid for.
But it depended on the needs of the person? Or was it always the same?
Well, they used to sort of trust . . . if you used to go in and needed to do some washing, well you couldn't do that in half an hour - an hour, so you'd say "No, takes me an hour". And they used to allow us an hour. Ten minutes from village to village in your car. And that was quite generous, the mileage.
So you said to them "At that house I'm going to need an hour"?
That's right. More or less. You'd come to an agreement sort of between you, you know. But they did cut a lot of the time because, as I say, it just got so they didn't have the money a lot of the time.
So the clients weren't paying for that?
When I first started most of them just paid a stamp. It was £2/5/6d stamp. They used to get them from the Post Office, and then they used to sign your sheet to say that you'd done that time, and then your time sheet used to be posted and you got paid.
So Social Services were funding it? Because now a lot would have to be paid for wouldn't it?
Oh yes, that all used to be funded. A friend of mine - she's died now - she was having quite a bit of care at home. She was completely paralysed from the waist down, so she was being hoisted by the carers. And I still kept friends with her and I used to do her meals, and make sure shopping and washing and everything was done for her. And all the girls used to come in and like toilet her and wash her and get her up and put her to bed, you see. So it worked out that saved her quite a bit of money because she was paying £12 or £13 an hour then. She had a friend who died and he left her half his bungalow, but that never benefited her, because it all went. But there you are, that's how it goes, isn't it? But she's gone now. She eventually had to go into a Nursing Home, but she did well. Two years, you know, where she couldn't even stand and that's what she wanted.
That was my aim, to help them along. But you're not allowed to do that now. There's so many rules as well, rules and regulations!
Not so many when you were working?
No. They gave us all these rule books and things, you know. And then they got this idea, they printed all these folders where you had to write everything down what you'd done and oooh . .. . I used to think "whatever can I put down?"
But are you saying they trusted you more than you feel people are trusted now?
Well, I suppose so. I mean we had to be vetted before we went into people's homes and all that . .. you know, trustworthy and that, which is natural. But I never knew any of the girls to .... I mean, my friend M, say, adding it all up, I had six hours or seven hours on my daily work, I mean, if I started at 7 I should have rightfully been home at 1 or 2, shouldn't I?. I mean, I was never ever home till 3, half past 3 or whatever, you know. So I worked that time for nothing. We never, ever got home on time.
That's what you do when you're involved with people, isn't it?
You do, you do, that's right. It's different at the factories, ‘cos you clocked in at 8 o'clock and off you came, you know.
So what would you say, of the things you did, you enjoyed the most?
I liked the home care work. If I had my time over again I would have gone into nursing, ‘cos I think I could've done that. When I left school at 15 the Careers people came round and they just offered us just those jobs. There was never anything else, no.
Contributor's mother (who was sitting in on the interview): My sister-in-law was a nurse. And if you know anything about that Stranger's Hall, she was a nurse there, and when they left school she told one of the teachers and she say "don't be ridiculous".
My aunt was 26 years older than my father, you see, so one day I said to one of the teachers that my aunt was a nurse at Stranger's Hall, and I don't think she believed me. But it was true, you see.
Mother: There was a picture in the Evening News a week or two ago with a nurse holding a baby, and that's what she used to do, you see. I can't remember who lived there at the time.
It was obviously quite a well-known family. I think that was probably a name what we would recognise.
But Diamond H Controls was a nice family firm. That was a nice family firm.
But the Care was best?
Mmm ... well, yes, yeah
But you've obviously enjoyed a lot of it.
I did, yes. I wouldn't change anything of my working life really. When I left Diamond H Controls I really missed being part of this ... almost like an extended family . . . huge it was, ‘cos, as I say, there was six or seven hundred people worked there. Never had any trouble. I think once there was a fight broke out between a couple of the men, and they were suspended for two or three days, but that was the only time really I knew of any trouble. Everybody just went in and got on with things. The only time you really came across anything was when the work was a bit short, and it brings out the worst in people.
The work is short now. My grandson is a trainee accountant and he works in the city, Prince of Wales Road. And he said it was awful because nobody knew who was going to be made redundant, and, of course, he was one of the last to go there, and he was really quite worried. He's Ok at the moment.
